Name: Fred Adams (age 95 years)Interviewer: Interviewer: Where did Jim Adams come from?Fred: He come from English I suppose, and he come here as a immigrant I guess, he was a ----- done all the law business in Digby, and so on. You want to know more about it? I can tell ya. He took a fella by the name of Secord; he was a fella had left his discharge in Halifax, but he gave it to a little girl; didn't know the value of it. And Adams says, after he took him to his property on the Culloden Road, towards Broad cove, he said, " We'll go and see about that." And that had been years then you know, so there was no line through then, only a trail form Digby to Halifax. So they walked all the way to Halifax, him and this here……what was his name again?Harry: Secord. Fred: And I suppose they stopped in some kind of tavern in some places, I don't know how long it took 'em but however they found that girl that he gave it to. She was a married woman and had children and he got the uh, uh….Interviewer: Discharge papers.Fred: Yeah, so I don't know, I guess he got quite a lot of money out of it somehow.Interviewer: suppose he'd need that to prove that grant should come to him and so on. Fred: You see, his time run out when the warship was in Halifax and got his discharge. He didn't know about it or anything.Interviewer: Now tell me about the Indians around here, that you say you practically grew up with.Fred: Now, they come from Bear River, and they first goin' off they'd stream drive. You ever heard tell of the stream drivin'?Interviewer: I've heard tell of stream driving but not the association of these Indians with it.Fred: Well, the Indians were the best drivers, they had these corks in their boots, they'd turn 'em over like that, you know. And they had these big blocks of timber, and they float them down the river, ya know in the spring, when the freshets was on, to the mills. There was a lot of mills out back of Bear River ya know. One of the big things there at that time. Bear River was doing more business in one day than would do in a month, all kinds of big ships was there, but I'm off the course now. Anyway, the Indians would come down here after the stream drive was over, and that was about in the last of June maybe, and July and August was the months that they porpoised. You know what porpoises are? Interviewer: yesFred: ya seen'emInterviewer: Yes: Fred: well, the Indians called them "papa feet" (?). Anyway they would ___________ warm blooded, and they shoot them you know. When they round up like that, come up to blow, that's the time they fire, you got to be as quick as lightning to shoot 'em and you can't fire-------- they used them big muzzle loaders, big barrels on 'em long as that and fill 'em full with powder and buckshot those porpoise. You couldn't fire from the side of the canoe over, it's kick so they'd have to fire straight on, the head of the canoe or on the back because-----Interviewer: Bow or stern, yes.Fred: Now I tell ya a little experience that happened to me. One day, they all was having some kind of a religious performance of Ste. Anne's they called it, out to Bear River and they all left here and went to Bear River all but Sim Pictou, he was the only one, he was building a canoe down here and he stayed here and the rest all left him, no one to go in his canoe to shoot the porpoise. In come a lot of porpoise. He says to me, "Fred, can't you come out with me and street the canoe." He says, "Ain't got nobody and he say them porpoise there, I'd like to get a hold of them." I said I would go in the canoe, yes, but you're 250lbs and me 135lbs it's gonna be pretty hard to keep offa the whirls here and one thing and another. So we started and instead of him putting ballast in the stern where I was sitting, to trim her he did a silly thing, he just jumped in the canoe and we went off after her. They were coming up all directions and them whirl things in the flood tide and I couldn't keep her straight to save my soul, she'd go round about 16 feet long, ya know, a canoe and uh, and he was holding out this gun right over my head and focusing on the throng. By and by one fella come up. "Duck your head." he said, Duck your head." Why I put my head down, I thought my brains was blowed out. Oh boy: I'll never forget that. Interviewer: Did he get the porpoise? Fred: Oh yes, we got him. They weighed about 200 pounds. Sometimes we'd run out you know and get a size nine porpoise in those canoes and bring 'em in.Interviewer: Did they tow them in? Fred: Oh no, they put 'em right in the canoe, and the way they done it, they balanced the weight over this way and they'd get hold of the fin there and they'd pull 'em right in and they wouldn't move that canoe at all. They'd balance theirselves. And them canoe was of birch bark and they would carry an awful load. Very buoyant.Interviewer: well, I hope they put that porpoise in the stern with you, eh?Fred: They put 'em all along; but I wasn't out with a big load, they go out all day there. They had to have still weather, ya know. You wouldn't shoot 'em in rough weather you know, and you had to be mighty quick when blow; come up and puffed ya know and it's just a second----like that---ya know. And that's the time they rounded up, they shot 'em. And then they had a harpoon about 15 feet long and they'd spear 'em. They sink very quick and they had to dig in as quick as they could to the spot where they shot them, you know. Lots of times they lost 'em, they're sink right quick. Other times they'd float, I suppose that air or something. Interviewer: They would extract the oil from the porpoises and sell the oil, it that the idea?Fred: Oh yeah. Then thay brought them ashore and then that had to take the pelt off 'em you see. The carcass, they had spare ribs there, they used to eat that. Let it stand under the fireplace for two to three days 'til it got fly bloat kind of poke up, a lot of Indians would come down and they'd eat that stuff. They made a business of it you know, they'd leave them on the poles, and pull strips out----with two cross pieces to hold 'em up and then let them dry in the sun for days before they tried them out. And then they'd cut 'em up in inch pieces --- like that--- and a pot there would hold a barrel full and they'd try it out, ell the oil. Interviewer: So there were quite a few Indians who spent part of the year over on the side of the island, then they'd go back to Bear River would they?Fred: Oh they'd keep on going, wasn't all after porpoises ya know, some come down to make baskets and canoes and different things. Go back and forth. But there was about 25 or 30 of 'em. I seen about twenty canoes out there firing all ways, you'd think they'd shoot one another and that old Gut was aroaring with their guns! And there never was an accident. I can tell you another story about two Indians got upset with a sea porpoise. They're a different type of porpoise. Ever seen 'em?Interviewer: well, I didn't know there was a difference. Fred: Oh, they weigh about 500 pounds, ya can't take them in a canoe, ya have to pull 'em in, if you get 'em. Well, they went off, my Dad was out there fishin', him and his brother they was out not too far from where these Indians was shooting these porpoises, or gonna shoot, He fired at the porpoise, it come up, and they jump up a lot further, they jump ahead kind of, make a big splash. He fired at him and the porpoise went down, they saw blood in the water and they thought they'd shot him and they sat there waiting for him to see what was gonna happen. Up came the porpoise and went down on the canoe in two the middle. And my father and his brother they cut their anchor out and pulled for dear life and they rescued the fell as, and they had an awful time to get 'em in the boat, the boat was small, and they each weighed 250 pounds, the Pictou's did, every one of them. And Matt Pictou, he was one of the fellows that shot the porpoise, he saved his gun, he had that gun, he held that gun. Why they had to take 'em in over the stern of the boat, couldn't was only about 12 feet long and they had quite a time at that. Interviewer: What's the difference between what you call a sea porpoise and the ones they were shooting inside, just a matter of size?Fred: Just a matter of size, yeah. And they come in schools, quite big school, and they'd go scooting way off in the water, ya know. When they get started they go like everything. And that thing came right up and right down over the canoe. Boom! They never seen it after. It probably died after that.Harry: and there was another experience----an accident.Fred: That's the only two that the Indians ever had that I recollect.Harry: The time that the Indian was drowned. Fred: I know, they went for ahs. They used to make baskets and went up to Latch Cove, ten miles below Point Prim up the Bay, and they were paddling up the shore and up come a shark, come right up through, turned it all bottom up, that was Louis Pictou, brother to this Matt Pictou and he was the only Indian they saud couldn't swim. And it scare him so, that he either---oh, I don't know, he fired the gun at it----of the fella that was saved, swim ashore, young fella he was only a teenager. I don't know his name. he swum ashore and he's the only one who told the tale. Well they took that canoe up for exhibition there for the tourists in Digby for a while, but that's the only time I ever knew that a shark attacked a canoe or boat or anything like that. Whether it was a shark or not it not known, but they supposed it was a maneater. Interviewer: did they find his body at low tide?Fred: They found his body at low tide. So he was pretty close to the shore you see. And they brought him home, brought him here to the beach and there was a great pow wow that night, all night, singing these here songs. Indians, you know awful dreary songs. Interviewer; Yes, I suppose songs of morning.Fred: Like a wake. Well, I was to it, well I was into everything Indian back then. I used to go in the canoes along with the young Indians, you know. We put sails on too. It's a wonder I haven't been drowned. Interviewer: Did you use any kind of side boards or anything, or just the sail?Fred: No, no we didn't have even a sail. We take a salt bag_________ take the canoe----Indians still had 'em with them still_______ couldn't get 'em you know. Sometimes we'd come stealing porpoise and they'd make an awful time if you had the canoe. They'd give us awful going over for taking it you'd be chased halfway to town by some of them. And we sometimes just took a bush, just a bush, a little tree and out it stuck up and the winds were blowing so why the canoe'd scoot like that. We had great fun, but they'd never take any white fella on, I was the only one because they'd always get in trouble then.Interviewer: How'd you get to know the Indians?Fred: Oh, walked right up to them----- about my age, a lot of 'em you know and right handy to where I lived here, on the beach,, I was there on the shore all the time and fishing and everything.Interviewer: So they didn't consider you just another white fella, they……Fred: Oh, they thought I was a Micmac too. All my friends was Indian you know. So the other boys didn't get a chance you know, and the Indians was great friends, you know, to ya. Best friends I know, they'd do anything for you, if you use 'em well. Of course when they get firewater in 'em. Interviewer: Oh, yes.Fred: They used to get that occasionally, they'd get pretty wild then you know, fighting among themselves sometimes. Ain't supposed to sell Indians liquor but they'd get into it. They used to have great time with these porpoise all the time, shooting 'em, trying the oil. And that smelt so bad, no skunk could compete with it, eh? And that flavour last, boys oh boys. Fer winters after they left where they'd tried it out--- the fireplaces where they'd tried it out and it would spill a little I suppose, you could still smell it foryears after the Indians left. Always had a smell. Terrible. Interviewer: who'd buy the oil from them?Fred: well, there's two women bought it from them for a long while, two sisters, I forget their names. They bought the oil. I think it was lubricating oil for them, was about all they had before this oil-----Interviewer: Before they got petroleum products.Fred: Jaw oil, they took the jaw oil, it was a different oil from the other oil, it was very pure, just a white, you know and specially good for lubricating. I guess that's all they had then: that's what they sold it for. After this sell it. Interviewer: What else did the Indians used to do around here except get the porpoise. Fred: well, they used to make axe handles and baskets and pushum baskets and all kinds of stuff like that.Harry: Even build lean-to's for the summer.Fred: Well, they made camps you know, then they went into the woods, the trees then was big as barrels, spruce trees, and girdles them round and this land here and just take that rig off in great rolls. They'd make the camps with little poles so they could place that right over it, lap it over to keep the water out, you know, it was great. But they ruined to trees. They claimed they own this country anyway; I guess we ought to give it back to 'em now again. So different things, they built canoes too, down here. Birch bark, ya know, there's big birch trees then. I had two canoes myself. I ----Solomaon---he was an old Indian, he was a little different from the rest, he kept by himself. He didn't porpoise or anything, but he built canoes and done other work, hunted wildcats. Walked all the way form Bear River on day, my mother was getting breakfast when he come. "Where's the old man?"She says, "Well he ain't up yet, he was up late last night fishin' 'till 12 o'clock and they're sleeping in a bit.""I wanna get across the gut. I walked all the way from Bear River," he says. "Well, "she said, " I get you some breakfast, Solomon." "I don't want no breakfast. All I want is tea." "Oh," she says, "you want something besides tea." So she they'd be up in a little while. "You set down." He kept walking back and forth, he wouldn't even set down after walking all the way from Bear River, he wanted to get across. I says to him, I came down first and T say, "Solomon, where you going this time of the morning?" "I wanna go across after a wildcat," he says, 'I wanna go see if I can trap 'em.' "Well, you get your breakfast, we'll take you over," Mother said. I think she said she poured him out seven or eight cups of tea and every time and each time she out in a lot more, so it was fairly, oh she said it was some strong. "Now," he said, "I'm good 'till tonight and I don't want nothing else." He wouldn't eat anything else. So ----Great hands for tea. Oh, I suppose I could think of things what happened but I guess there's nothing much more important that---they'd---- at that job, ya know, 'till about September and then they'd go back to Bear River again and then they'd go back hunting-----guides------that was their trade then. Going in the woods for moose, bear and all. They tell some good bear stories too, ya know. Old Mr.Justice, American, out to Pennsylvania Railway had built a house down here and he used to say Matt Pictou was s msn, he would be all right for President of the United States if he'd had the education, he had a great head. Smart. He could judge events and we'd go down there every night to listen to him tell these stories. Now Solomon told me one time that a bear usually won't bother you in the woods, unless they have young. So, he was after a wildcats, he just had small loads in his gun, not heavy enough to shoot a bear or moose or anything like that; so he was walking along and accidentally got into a den, bear den or the mouth of it, and this bear had a cub and she come right at him. Well, he said he thought his time had come. So he held the gun like that, he let her came almost up to the muzzle before he pulled it, aimed right above where his heart was, he fixed him. But he said if he'd fired any distance, he'd just wounded him, made things worse. So, they would tell truths ya know, you could depend on an Indian. I don't they'd tell you much that wasn't true. They could tell a lot where they been through the woods. So much. But I always found 'em pretty good. They'll go Back after the porpoise season was over, and some of 'em'd go guide________ they knew the woods pretty well, ya know. Gilpin was a man from England who lived about six or eight Pictou's and they were about the same size and some of 'em lived to be a hundred years old. Paul died at a hundred. I was up to see him in Bear River when he was a hundred years old, he was blind, he couldn't see me, but he could tell my voice. Mighty fine fella. And there's Sim, he was a great big fella, Abalan, Louis, and Simon .Oh, I don't know, another fella, I forgot his name.Interviewer: Well, good. Why don't we turn it off now for a little while, David? We've got the story about the Indians, and we'll have a little rest and maybe we can talk a little about some of the other things you remember. __________ You're right on this morning.Fred: Oh, I guess I made a mess of it, I guess.Interviewer: No, that's wonderful.Muddled TapeFred: Well, they didn't have a building then, they had a temporary place there rigged up 'til the building was built. Had the boat moored al the time. We hauled it up in the building. We had to keep her afloat 'til we had the boat house fixed so we could have a haul-up, ya know. First one we pulled inside when we used her.Interviewer: Was the purpose of the lifeboat?Fred: Well, for these here fishermen that was out, ya know, these scallop draggers mostly, we had to tend to. Go out there and they'd get these drags in their wheels. Helpless, couldn't move ya know, off here, half the Bay sometimes different places and the worst of it was we didn't have anything to go by. They had no ship-ashore radio to tell us what direction they were in, or anything, we had to go out by dead reckoning. Perhaps a fella would call us up from the other side and say, well there's a boat overdue, hasn't got in, two hours overdue and you'd better go out and look see if you can locate 'em. We'd ask where, if they had any idea where they was fishing. No they could be on Yankee Bank, or they could be on the snow Ground or they could be all over the Bay of Fundy. So, we'd have to take our own judgement, and go to a certain place. If he wasn't there, go to another place and they had a long time 'fore we'd locate 'em sometimes, and then it'd be blowing hard or snowing hard, was always a nasty trip. It wasn't like it was since Harry took over because the most of these boats is equipped with rader and all sorts of things where you can go right to 'em. But we had to go by dead reckoning, and then what made me so mad, that when they'd get in they wouldn't let us know, by telephone, land telephone. Ya think the least they would do would be that, ----- we'd be out there perhaps three or four hours and then have to go to the place where they went out to find out whether they're in or not. Interviewer: they were all in their nice, warm, cozy, homes and you were out…Fred: Soaking wet and we didn't have the equipment to wear like they have now. We didn't have the rubber suits. Them there oilskins and the water beat through it and the boat was not equipped with any cabin on it at all, no wheelhouse or anything and oh, anybody with eyes said I could build a boat better with both eyes knocked out of my head. They had a spray hood, it would come right where you was steerin'. I had to be lashed into the wheel or else the full_______ of the water'd come in with such a force on that spray hood it would come back in your face. No wonder me eyes is gone and strike with such a force, ya know, and that cold. My gosh! Instead of having a wheelhouse or something built on, I don't know what brains that would have had, some of them----- putting their heads in. whoever designed her, she was built in Bayon, New Jersey. Come on a flat car to Saint John and I was over there a week to bring her over. John Wassain(?) was coxswain then and uh----James Does (?) over here was engineer. Three of us went over to get it, there was eight of us on at that time. Interviewer: Are there any special trips that you remember more than any other?Fred: Well, we went after a fella there that got blowed across the Bay and then the nor'wester brought him back and he landed, come in an awful breeze the wind when it come back and over here in Moose Hollow, that's the entrance to the Gut, he was almost on the shore and he'd been smashed up. There was a great crowed on the shore watching him. And we went in there, took a chance went in there and fired him a line and made it fast, and we went ahead---- the boat dissolved. Took him out and brought her in here, but I tell ya, there was a wild sea on that and she was helpless ya know. Just going right on. Time they seen her, that they telephoned from the lighthouse that they seen her, that drifting she was coming fast--- with a nor'west wind, and as soon as we got it ready, soon as we got her off, anything to stop five minutes why we wouldn't have shored it. We had to go easy on it because we was afraid that the line might part too ya know, a sea like that. Had to use your judgement. And then we used to see these south-easters, they blow so hard, my graciours, it was terrible getting off sometimes almost take your life away to get off and the tender you see. Small boat, dory, had to be mighty careful, and then there's boats going adrift here they'd be yachts and pleasure boats going out here, this gale wind, ya know. And these twisters, blowing trees right up. Why that was blowing so hard when we got off there and got ahold of one of them boats the water was as flat as that floor there, but when that died out, you talk about a sea, it was blowing so hard. Gosh it could stop that boat; she wouldn't make and headway at all. I never saw it blow so. I don't know how many boats we towed in that time. One fellow lost a boat that went adrift, couldn't get his engine to start and he was going out, it was blowing heavy one night, we went after that. Ya couldn't tell where they was, dark as Egypt, ain't even have a light or anything on 'em so careless, some of 'em wouldn't even take an oar in their boat or anything; or a light that you could find 'em. So they depend on us. End of Side oneInterviewer: How did you finally find this one you were just telling us about/Fred: Oh, we ran right into her, for some reason. More of good luck than good management, I guess. There was an old fella I was alone at the time, just had one or two, the engineer was off, the coxswain. I had charge of her, most of the time. He got his arm broke, by doing a foolish trick going aboard a boat that went adrift from the mooring out in the rip here in the Gut; and she was bobbing down into this here mooring area. I was gonna do the work but this stupid thing instead of tending to the wheel, steering the boat where it should belong, he must interfere with me, and put his arm down through there, it came up and smashed his arm up. Just carelessness, foolishness.Interviewer: Between the boat and the______Fred: Yeah, and then he was three of four months off duty, and I had charge. Didn't make much difference to me 'cause he never was around when there was anything going on, didn't stay around too long.Interviewer: How far a field did you have to got?Fred: Well, we's supposed to go, I guess the boundary line was about up to Parker's Cove, that's about fifteen miles. I struck a rock off Parker's Cove one night. I know what was happening, didn't hurt anything, just turned------ there's rock-----Do you know about it Harry? I guess Perhaps you do. Harry: Ya. Fred: It's right at the entrance. I should think they'd have a buoy there. I don't know much about it then, because I never heard anyone say anything about it. It was nighttime when we had to go up there and I was going into breakwater and going out of the breakwater and I felt it just touch ya know. I said, " I guess that's a rock or something there." But that's the only time ever I done any harm to her. But now they put a hole through her----this new one, four inches wide on rocks and I guess they like it in Ottawa.Interviewer: Down at the new station: Westport. You were telling yesterday about finding a man out there struck by lightning.Fred: Oh yes. Yes, we went out there one time. There's a fella out there running the trolleys from Deep Brooks, I think he was, and he went around Green Point, that is at the entrance here, outside the Friday building(?). It was a nice day out, come this thunderstorms, heavy, we used to have theses awful heavy thunderstorms. He was a hauling his trawl right along---all at once sees that he wasn't moving. Didn't see him moving at all in the boat, thought there must be something wrong. Of course we didn't have no message from him or anybody, but went off to see; happened to be looking. There he was, bent right over the trawl tub, dead as a herring. The lightning had struck him, burnt him all up. See, he just had a ----he didn't have a rubber suit on, if he'd had a rubber suit probably wouldn't have done him too much just. It's a bad place to be, on the water, that lifeboat when she was just ablaze, she had a lot of copper all over her. The wheel and everything you'd take hold of was just full of fire. I never saw such raining as up off of Hillsburn one night. The water was blowing up 'bout that high with it coming down, where it was slashing in ----- The thunder and lightning was terrific, I never seen such a storm in my life. I expected to be struck any minute. It seems that output went round on all this copper, ya know. It seemed to hang on that, I don't know whether it had any way out, any way out, any protection from that, I don't know. Surge certainly followed it all over. End of Tape