Mr. Lawrence Hersey - School Teaching Sept. 20, 1979Began teaching 1936Taught for 35 yearsBorn in FreeportReceived his 1st job in Little River and taught from Grades 6-11 in a grading school.His 1st year was not too successful, had been out of school for 10 years. Have done fishing previously.There were little more than 25 students in this school.Subject taught- general- math (alg. Geom.. trig.)History, English, no sciences.Did not use the strap oftenBecause Vice Principal in Weymouth in 1956 for 3 years.Mr. Hersey then went to Yarmouth vocational school teaching English and remained there for remaining teaching years.In his 7 years he remembers of only 1 or 2 students who did not plan to co-operate. There were 100 students and 3 classes.Detention was the major type of punishment which Mr. Hersey felt was stronger.Todays problems with children Mr. Hersey believes is due to the fact that children have so much freedom now and are many times skipping many of their childhood stages and trying to grow up to fast.He thinks maybe we should be going back to the 3 basics- 3r'sMr. Hersey's began teaching with a grade 11 education with a D license, he then studied for Grade 12 and received a A license. At this time he was frightened of the idea of university work.By 1957 he convinced himself that he could do university studies. By that time he was 50 years old and elderly for university, so he took summer courses and correspondence courses. This was through Acadia, then later he attended courses offered in Yarmouth through St. Annes university and finally received his TC 5 by finishing his 21 courses.Mr. Hersey's 1st salary was $300.00 paid through the section he taught in.High salary was through a TC 5 at app $11,000.00Salaries, later on, depended on the rank of license; at first it was paid by wjat the school section offered.When Mr. heresy began. It was during the depression and jobs were not plentiful at all, in fact they were scarce.When Mr. Hersey taught, a teacher was more like a God or Goddess and the teacher was in complete control. Also the schools were going along with strict up- bringing of the home. But later on during the war, teachers were hired quickly and easily and many teachers who were not capable or suited for this occupation were hired, thus students took advantage of this.Mr. Lawrence Hersey September 20, 1979Question: "You were once a school teacher?"Answer: "Yes, I was. For nearly 35 years."Question: "35 years. That's quite awhile."Answer: "Yes it is."Question: "Something to be proud of anyways. Where were your born?"Answer: "In Freeport."Question: "When did you first begin teaching? Do you remember the date?"Answer: "In August, 1936"Question: "Do you remember where you received your first job?"Answer: "That would be Little River."Question: "And what grades was that?"Answer: "Six to eleven" Question: "So you didn't have any little ones, primary to Grade 5?"Answer: "No. That would be in the little two room school."Question: "Oh! So what was this school like that you first taught at?"Answer: "Well, it was called a grading school then, because the other type schools were called miscellaneous schools, then they were called miscellaneous schools, well miscellaneous means, like a stew, everything thrown in, you see. But when I was there, one of the bad years, when it was a two room school, and one room was divided, one to six and seven to eleven. And I had the six to eleven grades. It wasn't a very successful year, due to my inactiveness, first year teaching and having been out of school for 10 years. Because during that time, I wasn't very wonderful to put up with, and I was hanging on the nearest lamp post."Question: "How many students would you have at one time" Answer: "Well, I'd say 25 perhaps, maybe more, I'm not sure."Question: "What subjects did you teach?" Answer: "Well, that would be general subjects. The only thing I think in those days, of course, now remember, this would be 1936 and French is not as prominent as it is today, and my French was not very wonderful. I suppose there is the usual English & History, those were the two musts, you see in those days and then it was made up of whatever the teacher thought & the high school would take in Algebra and Geometry, some Trigonometry."Question: "Did you have biology and chemistry?"Answer: "No, Not in those days. Probably they were taught those Subjects in the larger schools, and later on, of course, I did teach Biology, strange as it may seem, I was sort of jack-of-all trades and master-of-none, you know. And later on I was vice-principal at Weymouth school."Question: "You were vice-principal were you?"Answer: "Yes, in the new school. Then of course, I had to take what was left, sort of the younger ones coming in you know. So I taught everything for Grade 12 Biology, Grade 11 History, Grade 11 Economics and later on, some of Grade 12 English, Grade 11 English, you see, but in the old days of course, there wasn't that choice of subjects, you see, so therefore the teachers more of less controlled everything and perhaps teach something that you could do well, although I admit my knowledge of subject matter had in."Question: "What year did you become vice- principal?"Answer: "In 1956, in Weymouth"Question: "And how long were you there?"Answer: "Oh, three years, then I went to Yarmouth and taught in vocational school. I wanted something new, well I went to vocational oce in Yarmouth and I thought, Oh, I'd like to teach in a set-up like this. So in 1959 the job was open, I applied and got it. So I spent the rest of my time in vocational schools."Question: "What did you exactly teach there? What field was it in?"Answer: "I was teaching English to all the students in the school."Question: "They all had to take certain courses?"Answer: "That's right. They were in Academic, you see, you divide it in two sections, the Academic and shop, the so called shop. The Academic would be, English, History, Mathematics, and science, you see, and then the other half would be shop. Then later on you might, lets see, about 1965, they changed that idea around you see, and that vocational and split it up so that the commercial group was separated form the rest of the so called shop teachers. And I was threshed into the job of teaching females. They offered it to a nice, presentable man, but he said no dice. I don't know, I suspose he would be run ragged by the females, and there was no danger of me suffering the same thing, so I found out that I got the girls and he took the boys. However, I was very thankful in the end, that he did that because the girls were more interested in learning subject matter and that's what I was teaching. That boys, of course, left the academic schools to escape the academic subjects in the vocational school and there were certain academic subjects still thrown at then and of course, they rebelled as years went on rebellion got more and more pronounced so I was very happy to have the girls, they were all very lovely girls. I think in the 7 years that I was in that school with strictly girls, there were probably one or two who weren't co-operating. I would have about 100 students. There were three classes. One was called the P.H.C- Post High Commercial, that is students who had their Grade 11, Grade 12 and they came in for 1 year. The other ones were just called commercial at first. Later on they changed the C. to S. Instead of Commercial, Stenographic. Of course, when I first started there, all the courses were 3 years, and afterward they decided they'd forget that & 2 years was started. So it was a 1 and 2 year set-up. Now in the 3 year if they could acquire enough skills. Say at the end of the 2 years, or even less that 2 years, in same cases, and they could go out and convince an employer that they were capable of carrying on efficiently, but they couldn't graduate. That was so, if they couldn't hold the job then they could come back to school you see. After they graduated they couldn't come back." Question: "Something like apprenticeship, would it have been?"Answer: "It would be something the same as that, yes. In fact the boys side did develop into the apprenticeship group afterward and then after they'd finish their courses in Yarmouth, then they'd go down to Halifax, Oh, perhaps the Institute of Technology, and they'd take their courses, or maybe work at a job at the dockyard or something like that."Question: "Well, theres something I wanted to ask you about since you started teaching and at the very end, was the strap always in the room?"Answer: "No, I lose mine and then I found it again, and then a teacher borrowed it and never returned it, for which I was very thankful. No, I think that became a thing of the past. If you couldn't control your classroom I never did have the opportunity to have to use it much and I don't think many teachers did, and of course now it is completely passé."Question: "What type of punishment did you use?" Answer: "Well, usually detention, which in a sense punished them worse because the strap you get it and it's over, where detention, if you got sentenced detention for two or three days, and I have seen students sit for ½ hours after school. Well, that worked until the consolidated schools came in and that changed whole thing, because there the buses came at 3;30 and all students had to go. So really you couldn't win. I don't think teacher can win over students, anyway really. It's something if you can grow with them, or get them to grow with you."Question: "There seems to be some problem now, concerning discipline, especially some of the older students, now, and more so than what they were even say, ten years age, or five years age. Do you have any comments on this?"Answer: "Well, I don't know about, you see I quit 7 years ago, so therefore, I wouldn't know about five. But looking back over the years, I think that today the students are grown up fast, long before they are competent to grow up. They are expected to be men and women, when they haven't actually gone through their childhood years, you see. Then again there are so many other things thrown at them. Today we have Television and radio and things like that. Now, when I was a kid, that would be a good many years age, over half a century, why there were none of those things. I can still remember when the first radio came, well we'd run a mile to get home to listen to the World Series on a little headset radio, you see. I think that the boys & girls have much more freedom than we did, as we tended to grow up in the image of our parents, you see. Were as today, the youngsters tend to look upon their parents, well maybe we did too, as fuddy-duddy's, but we didn't dare to say that and they tend to rebel against any authority and so they transferred their rebellion against home authority into rebellion against the established authority, towns and cites."Question: "Do you think any of the ideas or methods or subjects that you taught, should be brought back?Answer: "Well, I noticed that they have dropped History form High school. Now, I like History, we always did and I feel that it should be taught. Actually when you asked me that question I am a little bit out of line, because you see, for the lest 13 years of teaching I was in vocational school, so actually I haven't done any academic subjects, since 1959 and through the years I forget, but I would think History, and also I think that a return to the Mathematices. I know this new Math, and I suppose I shouldn't mention, cause I know nothing about new Math, and I would be only tying in with the old. No, I suppose that the subject matter I know that the movement of foot to go back to basics as we say, the 3 R's, I suppose and they are taken in the business and would know more about it than I, because as I said, I've been out for some time."Question: "What type of education or training did you receive?"Answer: "Well, I graduated from the high school in my home village of Freeport, that was only Grade 11 and than I fished for 14 years and than I decided to go into teaching and at that time Grade 11 was the lowest license granted, it was called the 'B license', and I didn't want to be right at the bottom of the heap so them I studied Grade 12 on my own & got it and of course, that gave me an 'A license'. Well, by that time that was just about at the bottom of the heap and when I couldn't see anything else because university than scared me. It wasn't until 1957, that I was convinced that perhaps I could be in the university world, and of course, than I'd have to go to summer school for a year, because I was getting too old. I was 50 years old when I registered for the first time at Acadia. And while I could not get a degree, you see there are two ways of getting into that. I hold a TC5 license, and I have more course at university than what the B.A. demands, but when I went to school, French, well any language other than English, was not taught. Perhaps English wasn't taught either, but as a result I could not matriculate at Acadia University, but they allowed, or did allow and I suppose they still do, students to come in without being matriculated, you see. And so the result was that I got passed summer entrances at Acadia, and correspondence course and St. Anne's University offered course in Yarmouth, so I finished off the 21 courses in 5."Question: "What was the approximate salary, that you can remember, that you received when you began teaching?"Answer: "Three-hundred dollars in the section, you see, in those days, every section is complete in itself and with my license, but at that time they were taking 16% for teachers' pension starting in 1928, which $140-$142, something like that. Well, of course the first years was in the depression, and I think myself got $15, and there was a $5 payment and a $10 payment, and it was paid during the summer & I got the rest of my money at Christmas time. It's very difficult for anyone who hasn't gone through a depression to realize what it was like. You said you are finding it difficult obtaining a teaching position, well I didn't have a teaching position until one week before schools opened and a friend of mine didn't even go to school the first year, so times were hard and of course, salaries were very, very low."Question: "What did you finally end up with as a salary and what was the highest?"Answer: "The highest salary I got, and that again was in 1965, was somewhere around $11,000, at the same time, that figure today is somewhere around $21,000, you see. So there has been a rapid change in the salaries in the last 70 years, of course, that $11,000, I only got for half a year, because I quit teaching in June.Question: "Did the salary depend on how long you had been teaching?"Answer: "Well, yes & no. The salary go up with certain licenses. Now, a TC5 you get a basic salary. And there are 10E etc., so at the eleventh year you are at the top and you stay there, you don't go any higher than you see."Question: "Did it depend on your license when you began?"Answer: "No, not necessarily. The salary was paid by the school section, and school sections could offer $300 here or $350 there and I'd go in either place if I could get the job, you see."Question: "When you first began teaching were jobs plentiful?"Answer: "No. Especially not at the time of the depression. No."Question: "Did a lot of students, do you think dropped out of School during that time?"Answer: "Well, I don't think there were so many dropouts, that is, not per years. There would be very few students who'd finish high school, who started in primary, you see. That is, there would be a number of dropouts every years. But not to have a big dropout. Well, I don't know what the average would be in the run of a year, but I know there would be very few students who started school, who finished school. For instance, when I got to Grade 11 in 1926 there were three students in Grade 11, you see. Of course, I don't have any idea how started back then, but certainly far more than three. And there was little difference in the educational picture than, because many girls, particularly went in for school teaching and at that time, well when my older sister was teaching you could get a license to teach Grade 9, 10, 11 & 12, you see. So many high school, well my older sister then, dropped out of Grade 10 and returned later and took their Grade 11. So, it is very difficult to say how many dropouts because many students dropped out for various reasons and then came back too, you see. Even when I was teaching in Weymouth in 1957, there were students who dropped out of Grade 10 & 11 and went out to work and suddenly decided they wanted more education and Came back in Grade 12, you see."Question: "Is this possible, or is there such a thing? Who do you feel has a better situation, the teacher during your time or a little after or the teacher of today?"Answer: "Well, I think the conditions have changed a great deal. For instance, when I started teaching & before that, I think teachers were, how should I say, a God or Goddess of a room, you see. That is a command of one room. And students, didn't rebel as much as they would do today, because they're used to more freedom, the home situations were different and naturally school situations followed along about the same thing. Now, I think the school were all in the same room till about the war, and I think so many teachers leaving the profession and going into services of various other better paid jobs, that a number of teachers were brought in who were young and had never taught and didn't have too high, perhaps a Grade 9, perhaps even lower, were brought in to fill the places. And they didn't plan to stay in the profession and so therefore, while they were given permissive licenses, they had no training and some of them stayed in and so I think the students took advantage of that fact because in many cases the teacher would probably be no older than the student you see, and probably the students took advantage of that."Question: "What are your ideas about the scarcity of teaching jobs today? What do you think caused it or do you think anything can prevent it?"Answer: "I think there to be a cause, and I think the movement into school teaching maybe, because of higher salaries, better teaching conditions, because back in 1948, they started with the Regional high schools, and so the teachers were only expected to teach one grade or one subject, you see. So you could specialize if you like, and certainly not have to change all the time. I think giving the higher salaries succeeded, but I think on the other hand, perhaps they're not careful enough in selections of the teacher. Giving a person a high salary doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get good results form the person, because everyone is interested in making money."